DUE TO THE NEED to provoke NEW MATURE DOCTRINAL, SPIRITUAL FRUIT EXAMINATION, we reprint this VINTAGE TAVEAU D’ARCY Word from 2000/revised 2006, yet again, 2019 right here, but on several OTHER Taveau Creative Leadership websites.
ALSO, peruse it while remembering beginnings..UMPIRE, INC (1988-96), THE IFFM,(1997-2015).. Now the Taveau Creative Leadership, DFW Leader Ministry Online Fellowship (ongoing, current) 2015 -onward regarding REAL LIFE RELATIONSHIPS. As in: how does the FRUIT of ministry described below, REAL LIFE stack up, with “REAL RESPECT FOR THE OFFICE OF VERY HUMAN BEING MADE IN GOD’S IMAGE PSALM 139?”
Let us COMPARE it to how GOD would value ALL in the Holy Bible RELATIONSHIPS. (Also see 10 BIBLE RELATIONSHIPS PAGE on this site)
Almighty blessings!
WHAT IS A FALSE APOSTLE? And Implying:
How can we tell a FALSE spiritual father/sr. pastor, elder,leader from a TRUE ONE?
“Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.” Apostle Matthew 7:16-20
A submitted abiding enduring James 3:17 Fellow Minister …Church Selah
(C) 2000/2006/2019 Dr. Taveau D’Arcy All copyrights reserved
The Bible tells us that we must not judge each other, however it does teach us to “discern the fruits” of any individual.
This includes Apostle Paul named (Community Chapter Ephesians 4) “pastors, evangelists, teachers, apostles or prophets. Apostle Matthew 7:16-20 (above) tells Jesus Bride to “judge (assess rather than ACCUSE) meaning ” by their fruits.”
Apostle Paul lists the fruits of the Holy Spirit listed in Galatians 5:22-23:
GOD’S “love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,meekness and temperance.”
ABIDING ENDURING JAMES 3:17 “The/(ANY STYLE) wisdom that comes from above is first of all pure, peaceable, easily entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy” (And I abide ministry, personally in all of this such) http://www.relationshiptheology.org
These are all GOOD fruits in the life of any true Christ Follower, be they youth, lay, leader, or God given pure authority ( 5 fold offices, head elders, spiritual father or mother or any Big Name or Lesser Known, Barely Known Name, etc)
Apostle Paul even trained the First Church to “JUDGE” (EQUALLY ALL ASSESS) .. HIS OWN MINISTRY TRUE/FALSE FRUIT:
2 TIMOTHY 3:10 “But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience..”
ACTS 17:11-12 Apostle Paul also commended the Berean Jews who examined HIS ministry doctrine by comparing it with the Scriptures “to see if it was really SO.”
APOSTLE PAUL’S WARNING ABOUT THE “MANY OUTER, INNER VOICES”
In I CORINTHIANS 14:10c Paul teaches that, “there are many voices in the world, and each one has significance.”
IFFM was downloaded during a Holy Spirit apostolic leader supernatural visitation, following a big regional fellowship meeting, through which I was majorly apostolically imparted (1996.) THE INTERNATIONAL FELLOWSHIP OF FOUNDATIONAL MINISTRIES based upon Apostle Paul’s Community big letter to the Church, Ephesians 2:19-20; It was a nonprofit, which after relocating to what was the Body of Christ mayhem in the deep widespread area..as a Born Again Christian Prophetic, Apostolic ACT., this leader put it down. AND has due to all of this, seriously, re-assessed and reevaluated “MINISTRY” (Bible Real First All Accepting diverse church REAL MISSION, REASONS, ACTIONS, MINISTRY BEHAVIOR..which the certainly Atypical Her will ongoing use to train.
EPHESIANS 2: 19-10 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
AND WITH OR WITHOUT ANY Popular Widely Spread 5013c, pioneering chief apostle T does similar to all prior to all of this..but much more as the nondark skinned Leader She, has ceased from all the overly big accepted, fully expected, usually apostolic deep into their own government of submission arcy hierarchy WELP, which also seems to included more than big…demanded bowing and human pleasing scraping. (into BYOB(Kindly, James 3:17 Respectful BUT pithy up front Noble Berean due to all of transpiring this.)
FOR THE MANY INQUIRING (Most usually ONLY fairly well off WE CENTRIC, includes chief ministry apostle titled WELP) …many of them WHO CONSISTENTLY OVERSEER DEMAND TO KNOW ** (** yet who nary a single hurried Office Titled ONE has called, Gal 6:1 O attempted RELATIONSHIP RESPECTING Matthew 18:15-17) Hence the POINTS already enclosed.. THE FYI: DR TCL,DFW LEADER + APOSTLE PAUL’S GOVERNMENTAL AUTHORITY : GALATIANS 2:1-2 (the vast WELP area, far off remaining accuser Pharisee, Well Known Into Sin Spying and the spiritual like)
IFFM(MY NONPROFIT 1998-2016) and TAVEAU CREATIVE LEADERSHIP trained/still ongoing maturely even does, train, many different brands, local global, widely differing yet all Jesus Accepting Christians …..in order to possibly help many of them differentiate between all those voices in our modern day world: TV and church preaching, words of prophecy, advice from family and friends, inner voices, dreams, ideas, profanity, cell phone messages, emails, worry, feelings and a lot more.
Each message, and therefore each MESSENGER, must be accurately discerned. IFFM/TCL/DFW LEADER believes that the best and most accurate method of differentiating between FALSE and REAL PERSONS, PASTORS, PROPHETS, APOSTLES or TEACHERS, is to learn from the Bible, how to tell the difference between GOD’S TRUE VOICES in people or messages, and the devils FALSE, DECEIVING VOICE in persons, messages and spiritual fathers or spiritual mothers.
POINT…The Wisdom of God … Listening to Only the Voice of the GOOD Shepherd
*There are also ways to detect when the message, or voice, that teaches, gives a prophetic word, or offerings encouragement, actually is coming from the mouth of a pure hearted pastor or leader.
* James 3:17 tells us that, “The wisdom of God is first of all PURE, the PEACEABLE, EASILY ENTREATED...” This means that any spiritual person who is dominating, dogmatic, bossy, or mean spirited has some dross somewhere down deep in his/her “well.”
*True Spiritual Fathers, Mothers are like good natural dads and moms. They are compassionate, never demeaning, some times they are more sober thoughtful deep thinking individuals, but they never put the “onus” on someone in order to control them through fear.
*True,good spiritual and natural Dads and Moms don’t curse, threaten, or use demeaning labels, foul language to get their children to comply.
* Good pastors, spiritual parents do not abuse their God given position or office to control people. They don’t withhold affection or communication since the roots of doing such are actually found to be manipulation and spiritual abuse.
* Just like good earthly fathers, good spiritual fathers, mothers behave in an emotionally mature manner. Even when under spiritual attack or financial pressure, good spiritual fathers, apostles,ministers, refuse to compromise or prostitute their power for gain.
* A good spiritual dad or mom NEVER EVER THREATENS or PUMMELS THE PEOPLE with their mantle, title or spiritual position.
* To do that reveals ignorance, immaturity and may be rooted in possessing an abusive, manipulative proud spirit. Good spiritual fathers and mothers are never position hungry. To be any of the above reveals the potential to use persons, which is manipulation and is rooted in control, domination and is a form of WITCH CRAFT.
MAIN LEADER POINT: GOOD spiritual leaders always earn respect by being wise, fair and good, but they never demand it.
*Good Spiritual Fathers and Mothers, don’t criticize or say negative things about other sr. pastors or leaders. No matter how strange, unusual a TV minister or fellow pastor may seem, they never make critical comments from the pulpit about them or make jokes about them.
*Instead, if they do observe someone whom they feel is not bringing glory to the King of Kings, they go on their knees on behalf of that person, and intercede for them.
*Or, they will demonstrate RELATIONSHIPS and RESPECT by directly meeting with/ going to them privately to speak to them about the matter.(servant leader Matthew 18:15-17 for all RELATIONSHIPS)
*Honor: Senior. pastors, spiritual fathers and mothers who model INTEGRITY choose not to pander, so as to be viewed as “lowering” God’s High Ministry Office Calling.
*Neither will they tolerate much less spread gossip, tales about other leaders. If they do see another pastor, person involved in sin, they do not take the seat of being a judge, but rather, they go to the person, as the Bible teaches, in a loving, humble spirit and practice Godly confrontation.
* Genuine spiritual fathers, mothers practice a respect for all persons, but do not have a respecter of persons spirit. (again: Gal 5:22-23, James 3:17 “without partiality)
* They do not demand that persons bow down to them due to their spiritual office. True spiritual leaders lead the people in bowing down before God’s throne.
*Good natural fathers, mothers make good spiritual fathers, mothers. They don’t feel that they have a need to prove themselves to others.
*Because they let Jesus be the source of their esteem, identity or security, they do not have a spirit of competition with other members of the Body since they don’t fear some other pastor, leader usurping their authority or taking their place.
WE NEED TO BE “GENUINE” …even humble Warts and All..
False persons, pastors, leaders, natural parents, manipulate people in their care. Sometimes is through the use of HYPE…to enthrall and capture the focus of the people on them or for purposes of bringing in more money.
Of course, God has a whole lot of FIRE and EXCITEMENT in His nature, so each of us must differentiate between those who HYPE, and those who are pastors, persons, TV ministers, who are anointed by God to be entertainers.
In the historical, current, giant spectrum of saints, there are many fashion and denominational styles and people groups: even some who by culture, nature or creative imagination, enjoy fashions that others, who might prefer dressing in low key, olive, navy and other drab tones, could judge to be “too glitzy”, or HYPING, and way too flamboyant.
Being flashy, demonstrating hilarity or even sporting fair amounts of BLING, does not necessarily constitute a person who is HYPING themselves. And, some people dress more maturely than others.And for God’s people, including TV ministers, pastors, etc:…
…It is truly the inward heart of the person, pastor that truly matters.
Psalm 1:1 teaches, “Blessed is the man/woman that walks not in the seat of counsel of the ungodly, nor stand in the way of sinners NOR SITS IN THE SEAT OF THE SCORNFUL.”
Maybe this explains one of the many reasons that persons have stopped going to church, at least in the west. They were just following the Lord’s commands…there were hearing so much pastoral, ministerial scorning that it hurt their clean consciences.
ALL WISE, EVEN A BIG ORNERY, BIG GRASS ROOTS RELIGION
MAIN LEADER POINT: Hearing another pastor or leader criticize, judge or make fun of how a TV person, another pastor leader looks or acts, is one RED FLAG of WARNING. In my opinion their judgmental comments reveal the lack of FRUITS of the Spirit as well as immaturity , the lack of true humility as well as bitter root judgments and competition.
Personally, I have been blessed by the great anointings on pastors who were convicted by their beliefs to dress way way down in jeans and T shirts… and blessed again, by super pumped up fiery power dressers, many of whom wore combed back pentecostal pompadores. (more back in the 80-90s than recent…plus includes Christian prior national TV)
God uses many different “styles” to bless me, teach me, impart to me and to to encourage me. I like God’s flavors. Only He knows which style hair do or shirt collar style is “truly from the heavenlies.” So that flash, bling or drab olive color isn’t what matters to my eternal soul.
Each minister God used to bless me has shared a common trait: each person had a pure heart and was an humble, loving servant of God. Although each person dressed in their uniquely different style, Father God’s kind pure heart permeated through their outward dress and the anointing of God was very strong.
However, as I pass through God’s body, I am forever hearing pastors criticize and pass judgment on TV owners and ministers. God showed me that He purposely uses some who over do their makeup or make their hair over large, as “foolish thing” who are put on TV for the purposes of “confounding the worldly wise in the church.”
SELAH.
MAKING A MINISTRY POINT…ASSESSING NOT JUDGING ACCUSING
I have had God repeatedly caution me about finding fault with the looks of some less reserved saints. I stopped making judgemental comments about certain “types’ which offended my dignified churchy sensibilities when the Holy Spirit one day revealed…
Each leader, pastor and person,that passes before my eyes is sent by God to TEST WHAT IS IN MY OWN HEART.”
*Is there a proud, haughty spirit?
*Is there a judging, criticizing, self righteous spirit in my own heart?
* Do I have a RESPECTER OF PERSONS SPIRIT? In todays hyper judgemental Body of Christ, some are equating FLASHY DRESSERS with SIN or mishandling of God’s money. Please be aware.
Recently, God has led me to begin to write a very straightforward Word to the body of Christ at large. It is about TALE BEARING and passing CRITICISMS and JUDGMENTS by, as well as against, pastors, junior prophetic ministers and nontradtional lay persons.
I have been a servant at large leader as one of God’s spies in the land in many states, conferences and in many many styles of churches.
Since about 1996, I have repeatedly overheard one pastor tell another pastor or one junior leader whisper to his /her friend, that they perceive that their fellow pastor, minister or lay person, is a “witch” or “warlock” or (the most favorite in most US churches) “a jezebel spirit”…
I have been personally accosted out in two public settings, and had sr. pastors openly and publically for “not being a submissive wife” and “not being under spiritual authority.”
NOTE: This has happened in a “CHRISTIAN” FELLOWSHIPPING, LEADER, SETTING.
In former ministry years, I have had autocratic, self appointed spiritual watch dogs knew yet refuse to not ever speak. I have had my good name smeared, all by the same kinds of leadership who shared the identical “sin spying” “dark demon spying” senior ministry in House chief apostolic doctrine.
THIS IS THE MAIN POINT
2019 Big National Prophetic Grass Roots Aside: And being in this, around this, formed what are now the anti FF Pharisee major deep south wake up call… and are Big Roots of Actual Real Life (2-3) shocking encounters of 2 Tim 3:1-5 FF From Such Turn Away commanded Pharisee fellowships /deep south)
AS THIS BIG SURPRISE… nearly all of this a Abiding RELATIONSHIP fellowship man /woman, even an atypical NEW VISITOR (!) sadly made me realize (potentially) HOW MANY MANY INNOCENT OTHERS …in those and similar local region, in house ministry reaching areas, had been forced to endure similar.
AND it occurred..how all of this ministry arrogance, ignorance radiated DEEP DISREGARD FOR MANY OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.
ALSO…how ever affecting was/and now is, the STENCH of “bad tasteless false (not big into RELATIONSHIPS) Fruit are..and how they give a BAD WITNESS to the GOOD NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, much less “fellowshipping with the saints”
I was raised a Southern Baptist..so I had never ever heard of the charismatic, mostly middle class, practice of keeping all women “under” all men,(OT Law, Patriarchism) nor had I ever before heard of the practice of appointing “over seers OVER all of the other ministers in the (perceived) “Gates of every City” and most especially, I had been (thankfully) SPARED while growing up BAPTIST from accuser resembling ,other’s always suspiciously overseer watching, ( witch watching, Jezebel) plus accepted, Phariseeical Yeast such as keeping tabs on many others, accusing fellow Christians of committing the sin of CHURCH HOPPER, etc.
POINT: VERY MANY CHRISTIAN OFFICES DO NOT USE THESE OVERLY SPOOKY, ACCUSER TRIGGERING “BIBLE BASED” DOCTRINES.
The big denominations, most dark skinned ministry lead apostolic groups and many private smaller senior ministries, do NOT use any or very much of these “accuser resembling” (amidst GOOD, usually Holy Spirit) leader doctrines.
Very many, in local much more mainstream (less prone to accuse, indeed friendly, healthy parts) of Christ’s body, would be shocked to learn of this type of spiritual doctrine spooky tale bearing, tasteless fruit…but because the national would be bride of Christ Sin Spying locally wide accepted, mostly DEEP SOUTH USA “spiritual government” “pastoral authority” and I am now requesting that ALL MINISTRY GOOD DOCTRINES be in depth SCANNED to DEFRAG the ACCUSER OF BOTH THE BRETHREN and the SISTEREN.
YET, all of these affect many multiplied tens of THOUSANDS, mostly in the local true church grass roots…which THEN STRONGLY AFFECT the way LOCAL NONBELIEVERS, THE YOUNG, the NEW BELIEVERS “perceive and discern” just WHO IS TRUE vs WHO IS FALSE…and WHAT IS LIFE IN CHRIST’S BODY supposed to RESEMBLE.
AND it can make “fellowshipping with (some of the accuser enabling,paranoid, suspicious Local House Saints) “UNSAFE” due to so much FRIENDLY FIRE.
I fully believe that Phariseeism appears only in God’s well meaning, but money hurting /doctrinally sick people”
SUBMITTED SELAH: ALL RELATIONS REALLY (ONGOING) MATTER..
Will that be locally regarded as TRUE or FALSE?
AS WELL…. WILL IT BE “REQUIRED, RELIGIOUS RULES” VERSUS ONGOING, ABIDING, RELATIONSHIPS which take priority in each one of the many ministry HOUSES OF THE LIVING GOD?
- “For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision (meaning OT Under the LAW) availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but FAITH WHICH WORKS BY LOVE” GAL 5:6
-
“Knowledge puffs up but love edifies”
“To know Christ’s love that PASSES KNOWLEDGE.” EPHESIANS 2:19
MAIN POINT: On the Final Day of Judgment, God will REWARD us for how we RESEMBLED HIM IN OUR PERSONAL, MINISTRY, ACTIONS…not for what we (selectively, think ) we KNOW.
HOW DO WE TELL WHO IS TRUE AND WHO IS FALSE?
So that means, that it takes time and experience to be able to decide between TRUE, RIGHTEOUS PERSONS, LEADERS, and FALSE, DECEIVING ONES.
And you will never ever get to be PERFECT and “all knowing/all discerning” unless you get some FAT SWELLED HEAD and an your EGO gets oversized… that is just superspirituality and a spirit of PRIDE.
ABOVE…OFFICE LAND WISDOM RE ONGOING CHURCH ATTENDANCE (Since 2009) “It’s no longer a Sellers Market”
READ JOB 41 the LEVITHAN “the alarming symbol of the hard to catch,willful, sneaky snake of human carnal “I” pride https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job+41&version=KJV
THE SPIRIT OF ARROGANT PRIDE: LEVIATHAN …it’s part of living in the world, it’s in the fallen human nature,even persons who have received Jesus Christ as their Savior..yet due to that latter, happily HE can give us His ongoing Holy Spirit supernatural Power to be set free.YET we’ll all have to deal with it in pioneering ministry, friends, family, business, society AND every once in a while, even if we’ve let CHRIST help us to overcome..that hard old Me, I ,SELF, ALL WISE EGO…human type of Centric…. SINFUL fallen as in Proud Nature, will try to raise it’s leader snakey/surruptious, sly, often very very hard to discern… proud vain head..
However, the temptation to fall into the sin of being ALL KNOWING and PRIDE is very very real and an ever present danger. Read Job 41, the Leviathan: this creature symbolizes the sneaky, multifaceted roots of the spirit of pride. (this comes not out but by prayer and fasting and then creeps up from down inside our well meaning human hearts, since, all of our hearts, including MINE, is “fearfully wicked, who can know it.”)
The God’s honest truth about using the gift of discernment of spirits, is that it is done in faith and love, EVERY DAY EVERY DAY EVERY DAY in and out…no believer ever has a day when he/she “arrives” in developing and needing to heed, to PAY ATTENTION TO this gift.
In 1995, on a personal trip to Washington, DC, the Lord gave me a prophetic dream.
The words came to me, “THE CUTTING EDGE IS BALANCE.”
The PICTURE which God showed me the picture of a person (me) who was balanced on a giant razor blade.
The razor blade symbolized the deep need to hear God accurately and to obey the leading of His Holy Spirit.
As I was balancing on the dangerous, extremely sharp, indeed fine tuned, sharpened edge of this razor blade, I could look down to the right and then to the left side. One ONE side I saw a giant abyss, filled with many huge boulders, upon which I would fall and be badly damaged …if I did not remain BALANCED…
On the other side, I could look down to see big turbulent, rushing big waters, into which I could fall..and wind up being swept away.
And I still abide by this apostolic/prophetic VISION.
The overall interpretation of this surprising vision was: If I don’t stay close to the Lord and in His Word, being led by the Spirit, CONTINUALLY, EVERY DAY…
……I would place my self in great danger of falling off the God’s Cutting Edge, which is to BE BALANCED.
True Spiritual leaders, apostles, pastors,etc. REMAIN BALANCED.
They act HUMAN and neither are super righteous, super spiritual or overly introspective (aka navel gazing).They do not have some false atmosphere surrounding them and do not isolate themselves from the people.
They may be very important, but they remain approachable and real.
True Spiritual Leaders lead by inspiritation, not by intimidation.
True Christian leaders motivate people rather than manipulate them.
When they train them, they do not threaten or intimidate them. False persons, false apostles, prophets, pastors, spiritual fathers, mothers ofen manipulate people by using fear, control or ostracizing techniques, which produces emotional manipulation.
Real spiritual fathers and mothers, pastors,etc. don’t put pressure on the people to look or act identically to themselves.
They have only the best interests of their spiritual or natural child. It brings them joy to know that every single unique individual serves God best when he/she is allowed to mature into the image of Daddy God, not the image of the pastor or natural dad or mother.
(This is just a small part of the IFFM Discernment of Real Spiritual Father’s teaching, training.)
CLOSING SUMMARY:
*Don’t fault find with leader, God’s people, but do ask God for His discernment
KEEP YOUR SPIRITUAL EYE PEELED, SEARCHING FOR FRUIT: the fruits of the SPIRIT, the ATTITUDES, ACTIONS and FRUITS toward other pastors, leader and the people that God sends them to minister to;
*Are they genuine people in real life?
*Do they play favorites?
*Do they respect ALL people or have the RESPECTER OF PERSONS SPIRIT?
PRAY AGAINST BEING DECEIVED (“watch and pray that you don’t fall into temptation.”)
Allow chosen, sent mature pastors, ministers, friends, to speak into your life and don’t forsake assembling somewhere with some mature discerning, non critical saint
Q. What do I do if the pastor or leader is in sin?
Go on your knees to pray for them
Do not spread tales
Speak to another pastor,mature leader who is not a gossipy type of person
If GOD LEADS YOU: then do what the Bible tells us to do: Practice humble Spirit led, upfront (apostolic Matthew 18:15-17) confrontation
1) Go privately and meekly to the pastor, leader IF the Lord tells you, and practice Godly confrontation.
2) If the pastor, leader does not pay attention to you the first time, go back with another person, as the Bible teaches,
3) If, after the two times, the pastor, leader does not repent, then ask God if you are not supposed to start going to another church.
But, judge spiritual leaders, Bible teachers, 5 fold ministers and sr. pastors, by the FRUIT of their lives and the fruit of their LIPS…and then the fruit of their PEOPLE that they serve.
Are the people in the group joyful, imperfect but REAL people? What fruits are in the people who attend the church, ministry: Are they jealous? Sincere? Superspiritual or dogmatic? Do they come across as genuinely loving and caring?
Ask yourself if the pastor comes across as “valuing” each person that God has sent him/her.
And although that all pastors, leaders and church people are all very imperfect, do you feel that they are very loving? sincere? content? happy?
Does the spiritual parent, pastor take more interest in the numbers of people in attendance or on the presence of God in the meeting?
How are children and teenagers valued in the church? Or is the gathering a for adults only BLESS ME CLUB?
ALL ONGOING FAMILY, CHURCH, MINISTRY, PERSONAL RELATIONSHIPS: Does the PERFORMING THE WORK OF THEIR MINISTRY take higher precedence in the people’s lives than loving, caring for and taking time out to be with their spouses and families?
Be at REST and RELAX..while you PONDER..
SHOW YOUR DFW LEADER LOVE AND SUPPORT
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